23 chronicles: King James VS. His Airness
Michael Jordan and LeBron James. Two players that together, have encapsulated the NBA world with a genre of basketball classified as an epic of greatness.
And so, here it is. The age old debate. A debate that takes on various forms and a myriad of positions. You have the “he doesn’t have enough rings” crowd, the “he beat the 73-9 Warriors” crowd, “6-for-6 no game 7s in the NBA Finals, there’s no debate” crowd, and the “don’t compare eras; they’re all great” crowd.
Regardless as to which crowd you fit in or don’t classify as, the Bronsexuals and the Jordan old heads clash on who the GOAT is all the time. In the barbershops, the classrooms, the high school gyms, and even while out on a date with a girl who you thought was wifey material until you found out she supported the enemy–trust me i’ve seen it all.
Don’t worry we’ll get to all of that and then some. But I need you to understand one thing before we begin, I’m going in neutral. I am a Piston’s fan first. Both players sent my franchise to the graveyard before annihilating the rest of the league–we felt the pain first. In ’91 MJ swept Detroit, leading to the no handshake fiasco. And then in ’07, LeBron scored the Cav’s final 25 points in game 5, leading to a OT win and game 6 coronation in Cleveland that would send us back to Motown.
And no, I’m not bitter. I understand that for every great team that’s assembled, there’s a superhuman force of nature that’s born to run through it. Great teams are the trials in place to ready them for greatness. It’s kind of like Hercules’ Labours–the cycle of 12 things he was sentenced with by Eurysytheus. Both players got thrown through the ringer and eventually conquered the mountains set before them in their quest to claim greatness. Oh, and guys, stop hatin on these two. We can critique without hating the greatness they put forth.
Clearly, they’ve achieved that quest many times–that’s why this post is being written. So without further ado, let’s settle this. The LeBron James versus Michael Jordan debate.
I’m bringing back a philosophy I presented when I made the Kobe Bible and that’s the greatness gumbo. It’s not about just rings, or stats, or competition, but all of it mixed together that will make this argument. As I present the facts, numbers, and moments in context, think of it as a composite gumbo for each players. And at the end of the day, the player with the best tasting Louisiana recipe, wins this contest. It’s pretty simple.
LeBron James
Michael Jordan
Reg. Season: | 27/7/7 50/34/73 | Reg. Season: | 30/5/6 50/33/84 |
# of 50% + fg | 9 | # of 50% + fg | 8 |
# of times lead league in points: | 1 | # of times lead league in points: | 10 (7 in a row ‘86-93) |
# of years w/ at least 25/5/5: | 16 | # of years w/ at least 25/5/5: | 9 |
# of seasons with 2+ steals: | 1 | # of seasons with 2+ steals: | 10 (3.2 in ‘88) |
# of seasons with 1+ blocks | 3 | # of seasons with 1+ blocks | 4 |
Best season: | ‘08-09 – 28/8/7 PER (31.7) 35/9/7 Playoff | Best season: | ‘87-88 – 35/6/6 PER (31.7) 36/7/5 Playoff |
Playoff raises from reg. season : | +1.6 ppg, +1.6 rpg -0.4 ast, +0.1 stl, +0.2blks | Playoff raises from reg. season : | +3.3 ppg, +0.2 rpg, +0.4, -0.2 stls, +0.1 blks |
Best title run: | ‘11-12 – 30/10/6 2stls | Best title run: | ‘92-93 – 35/7/6 2stls |
Game 7 #s plus record: | 35/9.6/6 (5-2) | Game 7 #s plus record: | 34/7.6/7 (2-1) |
Career Offensive rating / Def. rate | 116 / 104 | Career Offensive rating / Def. rate | 118/103 |
| Career Win Shares: | 236.4 | Career Win Shares: | 214.0 |
| Seasons as leader in WS and OWS: | 4 | Seasons as leader in WS and OWS: | 8 |
| Career PER: | 27.5 | Career PER: | 27.9 |
| Playoff points total and rank: | 7,491 points (1) | Playoff points total and rank: | 5,987 (2) |
| NBA Finals ppg, rank, # of games: | 28.4 ppg (6) , 260 games | NBA Finals ppg and rank: | 33.4 (2), 179 games |
| NBA Finals averages for career: | 28.4/10.2/7.8 48% fg, 35% 3pt | NBA Finals averages for career: | 33.6/6/6 48% fg, 37% 3pt |
| Career win percentage: | 839-426 (66%) | Career win percentage: | 706-366 (66%) |
Longevity vs. Effeciency
So this is the surface argument for Michael Jordan and LeBron James fans. Longevity versus efficiency.
Michael Jordan completed two three-peats, winning six titles in seven seasons played. The Chicago Bulls won 60+ games in five of those seasons and finished as the top seed in the conference every season except for the year Jordan missed to go play baseball and the following year when he came back and played the final 17 games (they went 13-4). Jordan’s Bulls remain as the only modern day double three-peat. Only the Celtics of the ’60s have accomplished this feat.
Then there’s LeBron James. Since 2011, Bron has been to 9 of the last 10 NBA Finals, including eight consecutive trips. That’s the most consecutive trips in the modern era. Again, only the Celtics of the ’60s with Bill Russell went more–they went 10 straight times from ’57-66. Although LeBron has six NBA Finals losses to his record, he has eventually brought titles to three separate franchises, including Cleveland who had been in a championship drought for 52 years.
This argument is made for their careers as well. Michael truthers will suggest that his 13 Bulls’ seasons are non paralleled and since he spent half of that span as a one-man high flying headache and the other half as a championship winning machine, there should be no debate.
Here’s the numbers and the facts:
From 1984-1998 MJ averaged 32/6/5; 2.5 steals with 51 percent shooting from the field and 33 percent shooting from 3-point range. He led the league in scoring 10 times with seven straight. He also led the league in steals three times, grabbed six straight All-Defensive First Team selections (9 total), won MVP and DPOY in the same season. He was always available. Outside of his second season when he broke his foot and the year when he returned to the league at the end of the year, Jordan played 895 of 902 possible games and he played every playoff game.
The LeBron stans will come back and say that since 2004, Bron has averaged at least 25/6/6–He’s NEVER dipped below those markings in any season. His averages following his rookie season are as follows: 28/8/8 with 1.6 steals on 51 percent field goal shooting and 35 percent from three-point range. In year 17, Bron pulled ahead to 3rd all-time in scoring, 8th in assists, 4th in field goals made, and 14th in steals.
LeBron has been an iron man himself. No major injuries and nothing seems to be slowing him down with the millions of dollars he spends nurturing his body.
If he maintained a 76 game playing pace over the next 3 seasons ,averaging 25 points, 10 assists and 1.2 steals, LeBron would finish 1st all-time in scoring, 2nd all-time in field goals made, 3rd all-time in assists, and 7th all-time in steals. He would join Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the only other player to place top-5 in three separate major categories all-time.
Regular Season
People who debate these two always get it wrong. Regular season success DOES matter. It’s just that you play the game to win it all as well and not just put up nice regular season numbers. It’s like I tell my friend Kristen when we play Call of Duty and we win a Domination or Hardpoint match, but I only get 15 kills as opposed to leading the leader board with 26, “We won the game, it dosen’t matter.” And that’s how I feel in losses too.
If I got 35 kills, but we lose, what does that mean to me if I didn’t complete the objective? Okay basketball is a bit different game than COD, but hopefully you kind of get it , because sometimes Kristen dosen’t. Anyway, here we comb over the regular season numbers that make you drop your jaw and exemplify why these two are separated from their counterparts.
MJ
Michael Jordan put up some crazy numbers in his career, especially in his first six NBA seasons where he posted 5 of his 6 highest scoring seasons. As a rookie he averaged, 28/7/6 with 2.4 steals–he’s the only rookie ever to come in and average 25/5/5 and 2+ steals. He holds the 5th highest scoring average as a rookie and the 5th most win shares his rookie year (15.1)–the only guys ahead of him were big men and the next closest wing player was Larry Bird at 11.2. He’s the only rookie to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals.
But the ’86-87 season, his 3rd NBA season, was just nuts. He dropped 50 points with 4 steals, and 3 blocks in game one versus the Knicks. Then he took off. He put up 36 or more in every single month of the season.
Jordan's '86-87 season (Year 3)
1
Number of 40+ point games
He had 8 50+ point games, including 2 60-point games.
1
# of 40+ point games in a row
42/6/4 3 steals & 1.6 blocks during 40-point 9-game streak.
1
# of games w/ 25pts 3 blcks, & 2stls
He had 7 games with 40 points and 4 blocks.
Arguably MJ’s best season was the following season. In ’87-88, his 4th season, he averaged 35/6/6 with 3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks. He had a 31.71 PER, which is the 4th highest ever. That season he won his first MVP award and also won Defensive Player of the Year, All-Star game MVP, All-NBA First team and All-Defensive First team. He led the league in steals, was 6th in defensive rating (101.5), 3rd in defensive win shares (6.1), and finished 14th in blocks as a freaking shooting guard. Are you kidding me? He was first in almost every offensive metric. 1st in total points, average, field goals made, free throws made, Offensive win shares (15.2), and Offensive Box Plus/Minus (8.8).
Three players have had a season where they recorded at least 100 blocks, 200 steals, 300 assists and 300 rebounds. Scottie Pippen in 1989 and Michael Jordan in back-to-back seasons (1986-88). And MJ led the league in scoring in both seasons.
- His 30.1 career ppg is the highest average EVER
- He had 15 triple doubles in ’88-89 (He had 10 over an 11-game stretch)
- Only shooting guard with five straight seasons with 2500+ points
- Only player with 250+ steals and 125+ blocks (’88-89)
- He finished 6th in MVP voting in his rookie year
- he led the league in PER and Usage rate 5X. Everyone else in league history did it 4X and no one did more than one time.
LeBron👑
LeBron James was a man-child when he came into the league. Despite being deemed the “chosen one” in the early stages of adolescence, he fearlessly leaned into those expectation and exceeded them. Even at 18-years-old he averaged 21/6/6 with 1.6 steals. Then from his sophomore season in the NBA until his final year with the Miami Heat he averaged 28/7/7 with 1.7 steals, shooting 50 percent from the field and 34 percent from 3-point range. Bron has been at least 25/6/6 for his entire 17-year career.
Bron’s 2008-09 season was his best statistically. He averaged 30/8/7 with 1.8 steals and 1.1 blocks that season. It was his fist league MVP, but he also earned an All-Defensive First team honor, and an All-NBA First team nod. He posted the fifth highest PER ever that season (31.7). He led the Cavaliers to a 66-win season, coming two years after leading them to the NBA Finals at 22-years old. He also led the league in triple doubles (7), top-3 in points-assists-rebounds totals (43.2), 50-point games (3), and 40-point games (9).
Bron led the league in PER six straight times, Win shares five straight times, Box Plus Minus six straight times (seven overall), and Value over Replacement eight straight times.
For context, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar never led the league in PER more than five times, only four straight in win shares, tied with Bron in BPM, and trails Bron by one in VORP.
- Youngest to 1,000 points, 2,000 points — all the way to 34,000 points
- Only guy to average 25+ points for 16 seasons
- 911 straight games with at least three field goals
- shot 54 percent from the field with Miami 58 percent from 2pt
- Nine seasons shooting better than 50 percent
- Youngest to win MVP 4X (28-years-old)
Postseason
This is where the rubber meets the road. Yeah all that regular season stuff is cute, but what did you do when the Larry O’Brien trophy was at stake–when everything mattered. I’m going to go into more head-to-head focus here to truly see the comparisons . First I will track their timelines through the playoffs and to the NBA Finals. Then I will produce the averages, career totals, big time games and feats in the NBA Finals.
LeBron made it to the playoffs for the first time in ’05-06, his third season, and by his fourth, he made it to the NBA Finals where he lost to the Spurs in a sweep.
’07-08′ he was eliminated in semis, ’08-09 he was eliminated in the Eastern Conference Finals, and ’09-10 eliminated in the semis.
After switching to the Heat, he lost in the ’11 NBA Finals versus the Mavs in six games, before wining his first title in ’12 against the Thunder. Bron won his first back-to-back versus the Spurs in seven, then lost in five games the following year. He returned to Cleveland and lost in the NBA Finals in six games, eventually winning the title again in ’16 after trailing 3-1, ending a 54-year Cleveland sports drought. Then he would lose the next two NBA Finals to the Warriors, before missing his first playoffs since ’06 after he joined the Lakers. Then in 2020 he defeated the Miami Heat in the bubble in six games to claim his fourth title. LeBron has been in 9 of the last 10 NBA Finals, including eight in a row.
Bron averages 29/9/7 with 1.7 steals and 1 block over his playoff career. He ranks 5th all-time in points average in the playoffs, but he’s the all-time points leader in playoff history by a wide margin (+1504 points). He’s 2nd all-time in playoff assists behind Magic Johnson (-475 assists), and 6th in all-time playoff rebounds (-1,756 rebounds).
LeBron has had some sensational NBA Finals runs and we will get to the one that I believe was his best, but arguably his two best championship runs came when he didn’t win it. In the 2008-09 season, LeBron and the Cavs lost to Dwight Howard’s Orlando Magic in the ECF in six games. But during the 14 games LeBron played, he was a monster. Bron averaged 35/9/7 with 1.6 steals shooting better than 50 percent from the field in the process. He recorded a silly 37.4 PER during that stretch. UNREAL. In that series versus the Magic he averaged 38/8/8 on 48 percent shooting. He was also shooting 16 free throws per game for the series. Man was unhinged.
The other was the 2017-18 postseason. He averaged 34/9/9 on 54 percent shooting. Bron cremated everyone in the East that year.
2017-18 LeBron playoff run
During this playoff run, LeBron shot better than 50 percent in 16 of 22 games. He had eight 40+ point games, eight 10+ assist games, and 11 10+ rebound games.
Round 1 vs. Pacers
In the first round Bron averaged 34/10/8 in a 7-game sereis. In game 7 he had 45/8/7 with 4 steals.
Round 2 vs. Raptors
In the next round he put up 34/8/11 against the Raptors.
Round 3 vs. Celtics
Then he averaged 34/9/8 on 52% FG and 41% 3pt in a 7-game series. In game 7 he had 35/15/9.
Bron would eventually get swept by the Warriors in the NBA Finals, averaging 34/9/10. Game 1 is famously remembered as the game that J.R. Smith goofed, forgetting the score. But if George Hill had made his free throw with the game tied in regulation, that game might’ve gone down as one of the greatest NBA Finals games for any player ever.
LeBron had 51/8/8 on 59 percent shooting and 3-for-7 from deep. He went dumb. And the fact that it was up against the likes of Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green, made it that much more legendary. A team that had won 73 games the year prior and had come back and added Kevin Durant , stacking the deck with the most versatile Joker in the deck. Unfortunately, it went down as a missed opportunity and an eventual sweep.
LeBron is the all-time leader in playoff minutes (10,811) and all-time leader in playoff points (7,491). In 2017 he became the first player to average a triple double in the NBA Finals (33.6/12/10).
I think LeBron’s 2011-12 playoff run was his best towards a title. Obviously some people will mention ’15-16, because of the come from behind 3-1, or even ’12-13 the year he faced the Spurs, but ’11-12 was his breakthrough postseason.
A year after completely folding in the NBA Finals, LeBron was on a mission to figure things out. That postseason, LeBron averaged 30/10/6 with 2 steals on 50 percent shooting. He posted his highest PER in a season where he won the title (30.3), Win Shares (5.8) Offensive Win Shares (4.2), and Defensive Win Shares (1.6). These marks all led the playoffs. In fact, LeBron led the playoffs in eight different advanced metrics that year, which is also the most in his career. LeBron scored 25+ points in 21 of 23 playoff games with 15 straight to the end of the NBA Finals. He had 10 double doubles and at least a steal in all but two games. He also delivered his highest defensive rating (99) and recorded the most minutes he’s ever played (983). Bron was at his physical peak this year.
LeBron also had a few signature games in these playoffs. There was the 40/18/9 2 steals and 2 blocks game versus the Pacers in game 4 of the semis. And the infamous “stare game” down 3-2 in the ECF to the Celtics where he ethered them in Boston, posting a 45/15/5 game on 73 percent shooting.
In the NBA Finals versus the OKC Thunder, LeBron averaged 29/10/7 with 1.6 steals, securing his first NBA title.
More LeBron feats:
- Also leads the playoffs in: steals (445), FGM (2,671), minutes (10,811), and FTM (1,735)
- Youngest to 4,000-6,000 playoff points
- Most ppg on winning team in a seven game series (29.7)
- Only player in NBA history to average at least 25/10/7 in an NBA Finals series. He did it 3X.
- Only player to score 40 points and have at least half of his teams’ assists.
- Most defensive rebounds in the NBA Finals (407), most triple doubles in the finals (11) and most playoff wins ever (172).
MJ’s numbers in the postseason don’t make any sense. But first let me just run through some points of order.
He led the playoffs in ppg in 10 seasons. He averaged below 30 ppg one time (29.3), his rookie season. He has a career playoff average of 33.4, which is the highest average in NBA history.
In two of his first three seasons, MJ was bounced out of the 1st round by the Larry Bird Celtics–a team with five future Hall of Famers.
In 1986 MJ broke his foot, sidelining him for 64 games and when he returned to the floor it was against the 67-win Celtics that would eventually win the title and be deemed one of the greatest teams assembled.
In game 1 MJ had 49 points and then in game 2 he put his dancing shoes on and, boogied on everyone, topping a 24-year old playoff record previously held by Elgin Baylor (61) by posting 63 points on 54 percent from the field, taking zero threes.
I would never have called him the greatest player I’d ever seen if I didn’t mean it. It’s just god disguised as Michael Jordan.
HOF Larry Bird after game 2
Boston Globe
In ’87-88 the Bulls would be eliminated in the semis by the Bad Boys Pistons in 5. Then the next season they lost to them in 6 games in the ECF. The following year was the last time that MJ would lose in the ECF. The Pistons inched past them in 7 games. Jordan would go on to win two separate three peats, cementing himself in the lore as a champion.
With Jordan, I could pick from a few of his runs that statistically were crazy. I mean ’86 he averaged 43.7 versus the Celtics (3 games) and in ’90 he put up 37/7/7 with 3 steals (16 games), but I think his best run was ’93, because he just dropped a spirit bomb in the NBA Finals.
1992-93 MJ playoff run
In round 1 MJ averaged 34/7/4 a steal and a block, 31/5/5 vs. the Cavs, and 34/7/7against the Knicks–he was regualr great. But in the NBA Finals that year, he did something no one did. He averaged the highest average in NBA Finals history.
Game 5 vs. Suns
He scored 55 points on 57 percent shooting up 2-1 in series. They won the game.
Games 2-5 vs. Suns
MJ averaged 46/9/7 on 51% shooting.
'93 stat line:
41/9/6 on 51% fg , 40% 3pt with 1.7 steals. 46 minutes per night. (3rd title)
More MJ feats:
- NBA record 5 series averaging at least 40 ppg (no other player has more than 1).
- Most FGM without a miss in the playoffs (13 vs. LA June 5, 1991)
- Led the ’95-96 Bulls to the best regular season/post season record of all-time (87-13)
- outscored 268 of 269 postseason opponents in career, only year he was outscored was his rookie year ’85 vs. Bucks forward Terry Cummings. (29.5 to MJ’s 29.3)
- Highest career PER (28.6) and Box Plus/Minus (11.14)
- In ’97 title run, MJ led team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks for final 3 rounds. Hakeem Olajuwon is the other in ’94.
- Only player in NBA history to win a title with only one player averaging double figures in scoring. In ’97 title run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 ppg on 42% shooting. Everyone else was below 8 ppg.
Okay, now I want to get into these two players’ best playoff games. The big performances and a little context behind each one.
MJ's greatest
"Shrug Game"
In game 1 of the ’92 NBA Finals, MJ dropped 35 points in the first half, including six threes, prompting the infamous shrug.
"The Shot" pt.1
In game 5 on the road versus the Cavs MJ scored 44/9/6, including the game winning jumper over Craig Ehlo to clinch the series.
"The Showdown"
Barkley had 32/12/10, but MJ racked up 55 points on 57% shooting, tying the most in NBA Finals history.
"Flu Game"
Game 5 of the NBA Finals, on the road, series tied 2-2, and a “stomach virus” with the Bulls trailing by 16 after 1. And none of it mattered. MJ scored 17 in the 2nd and then 15 in the 4th, finishing with 38/7/5 in 44 minutes, willing the Bulls to victory.
63 in the Garden
Going up against the 67-win Celtics, MJ gave the Bulls a chance against the team that was 40-1 at home, delivering a 63 point onslaught that prompted a double overtime game. Bulls lost by 4.
"The Shot" pt.2
At 34, with a 3-2 lead over the Jazz in the NBA Finals, It was time for the last act of heroism. MJ scored 45 points, including one of the greatest sequences in NBA Finals history. Down 3 with 38 seconds left, He scores a contested layup, then strips Karl Malone on defense, next play, he drives right, sends Byron Russelll to the Utah food court with a crossover and nails a soul crushing Jumper to secure the 2nd 3-peat.
LeBron's greatest
25 in Game 5
In game 5 versus the Pistons, LeBron scored their last 25 points, scoring 48/9/7 on 55% shooting in route to a game 5 victory over Detroit.
Game 4 vs. Pacers
In 2012 LeBron game 4, Bron put up 40/18/9 game versus the Pacers. It was the first such game since Elgin Baylor in ’61.
"The Block"
After coming from down 3-1 versus the Warriors in ’16, Bron and the Cavs forced game 7. He tailed 27/11/11 and three rejections in this game, but none larger than the chasedown block with just under two minutes left in game 7.
"Stare Game"
Trailing 3-2 in the ’12 ECF, LeBron went to another place. He scored 45/15/5 and shot 75% from the field, leading the Heat to a 19-point victory on the road.
Monstars vs. Bron
In game 1 of the ’18 NBA Finals, LeBron pushed a Warriors team with at least three sure fire HOF’ers to the limit. He had 51 of his teams’ 114. He also led the team in assists and shot 59% from the field.
Bron v. Jimmy Buter
Although LeBron lost this game, he put on a show in the NBA’s first ever bubble NBA Finals. Bron had 40/13/7 on 71% shooting and 6-for-9 from 3pt range. Lakers would eventually win this series.
The next debate here is the level of difficulty. To me, it’s a bit tired because you could really make a case in both scenarios. Today’s game CLEARLY has more talent across the board and is more versatile due to the fact that positions have evolved and become more inconsequential. And in the Jordan era it was more physical because you could clobber guy when they came through the paint and the ref would call it a common foul. You also had illegal defense, hand checking and the dinosaur big men that roamed the interior.
History Lesson
But mainly I want to dispel a couple myths on these two all-time great players. I want to break down the whole “Bron faced superteams” and “Jordan would’ve won eight straight” arguments you hear every day.
Okay, LeBron faced the ’06-07 Spurs, ’10-11 Mavs, ’11-12 Thunder, ’12-14 Spurs, ’14-16 Warriors, ’16-18 Warriors and the ’20 Miami Heat. For most of the decade leading up to the decision, teams were comprised of a “Big 3′ or a 1-2 punch. That’s what many in the league felt you needed to win titles. Then in the summer of 2010, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh all became free agents and signed onto one team together, forming the first player organized super team. Yes, historically other super units were forged together via trade, but NEVER in NBA history had three players in the prime of their careers become free agents and sign on the team of their choosing.
Closest we saw to this was ’03 Karl Malone and Gary Payton joining the Shaq-Kobe Lakers or Charles Barkley joining the Rockets two years after they acquired Clyde Drexler, but these players were well into their 30s.
The 1968 Lakers added Wilt when they already had Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson and Kareem Abdul-Jabar joined forces in Milwaukee in 1970, then you had Dr.J, World B. Free and George McGinnis, and of course the ’08 Celtics. KG and Ray had some leg room, but ultimately it was up to their organizations where they would go.
LeBron effectively ushered in the era of superteams by showing future players how to orchestrate where you want to play by signing shorter deals.
The ’11 Mavs were a team of role players, over the hill Jason Kidd who shot threes, Shawn Marion, DPOY Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry and a blazing Dirk Nowitzki who was torching everyone, including that ’10-11 Heat team. Then he played a young Thunder team whos primary stars at the time was KD and Russ with James Harden as the 6th man. Finally, they’d face the always reinventing Spurs squad who they defeated in ’13, but lost to the follwing season.
Then Bron went to the Cavs and ran up on a young Warriors team that played with pace, moved the ball and shot tons of threes. That team would carry its momentum into the next season and win 73 games. But this was not a super team, but a young big 3 with a strong deep rotation of players. It wasn’t contrived or created, it was a trio of organically formed rising stars, led by their 2-time MVP. LeBron helped to beat this team down 3-1.
The only superteam LeBron faced came the next two seasons.
That same Warriors team added Kevin Durant. Widely regarded as the 7-foot wing player with guard skills and a flame throwing crossbow for a jumpshot. This was a superteam. LeBron went 1-7 versus this team in the NBA Finals. He faced a dynastic team in the Spurs and a future dynastic team in the Warriors. He managed to beat both once.
So, how tough was LeBron’s path to a title?
Toughest LeBron opponents: | Team record: | LeBron win/loss vs. team |
Miami Heat 2020 | 44-29 (.603) | 1-0 |
Denver Nuggets ‘19-20 | 46-27 (.630) | 1-0 |
Golden State Warriors ‘14-18 | 265-63 (.810) | 1-3 |
Toronto Raptors ‘15-16 | 56-26 (.682) | 1-0 |
Atlanta Hawks ‘14-15 | 60-22 (.731) | 1-0 |
Indiana Pacers ‘12-14 | 105-58 (.644) | 2-0 |
OKC Thunder ‘11-12 | 47-19 (.712) | 1-0 |
Chicago Bulls ‘10-11 | 62-20 (.756) | 1-0 |
Dallas Mavericks ‘10-11 | 57-25 (.695) | 0-1 |
Orlando Magic ‘08-09 | 59-23 (.720) | 0-1 |
Boston Celtics 2007-08, ‘09-10, ‘11-12 | 155-75 (.673) | 1-2 |
Detroit Pistons 2005-2007 | 117-47 (.713) | 1-1 |
LeBron had an 11-8 record versus these 12 teams with various versions in some cases. I tried to stick to the conference and NBA Finals opponents as they were the ones who pushed him consistently. LeBron is magnificent, but I want to bring some context as well.
From 2005-2010 the Cavaliers were either 1st or 2nd in the division, winning 60+ games twice and they were a top-5 defense in two of the 5 seasons, ranking no lower than 11th during that stretch.
And from ’05-10 he had 4+ teammates with a PER of 15+ in 3 of 5 seasons. No, he didn’t collect the wealth of talent that he has consistently had now, but the East was watered down considerably and his team played well together–I won’t go through players, but ’06-07 Cavs were a premature team.
Let’s destroy some myths.
- LeBron never beat a Ben Wallace version of the Pistons. Ben Wallace was a Chicago Bull in ’07 when Bron scored 25 straight points against the ’07 Pistons team who played without Big Ben in the middle for the first time that decade. Chris Webber and Jason Maxiell were left out on this guy for crying out loud. Pistons and Cavs were the only 50-win teams in the East in ’06-07.
- Bron beat the Celtics in ’10-11 and ’11-12. That was his first time beating the big 3. At this point KG was 35, Paul Pierce was 34 and Ray Allen was 36. The series went 7 vs. the Heat.
- The comeback from down 3-1 to the Warriors was pure greatness in ’16. LeBron averaged 30/11/9 with 2.6 steals, stamping his final mark with “the block”. But somehow Kyrie Irving gets buried in the lede. Kyrie averaged 27/4/4 with 2.1 steals on 47/41/94 splits–nearly 50/40/90. And in the game LeBron dropped 41, he dropped 41–the only NBA Finals duo to do that. Oh, and did we forget arguably the greatest shot ever in an NBA Finals game 7 clincher off the right wing? Possibly, only Ray Allen’s game 6 clutch 3 to extend the Heat’s title hopes in ’14 rivals Kyrie’s shot. All in all, this ship was a collaborative effort by great players and an all-time player doing all-time great stuff.
Now its MJs turn. Jordan faced the ’90-91 Lakers, ’91-92 Blazers, ’92-93 Suns, ’95-96 Sonics, and the ’96-98 Jazz. Teams from this era were generally centered around one or two stars with a combination of role players around them.
The ’90-91 Lakers were led by HOF’ers Magic Johnson and James Worthy, but were surrounded by Divac, AC Green, and Sam Perkins. Then they played the ’91-92 Blazers of Clyde Drexler, followed by the ’92-93 Suns with Charles Barkley, Dan Majerle and Kevin Johnson. He then took a one and a half year break, before returning to play the ’95-96 Sonics led by Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp. They wrapped up their three-peat against the Stockton-Malone pairing of the Utah Jazz. Of course, MJ and company won them all.
During their run, Jordan’s Bulls defeated SEVEN 60+ win teams in the postseason, including one in each conference in 3 of their 6 titles.
So, how tough was MJ’s path to a title?
Toughest MJ opponents: | Team record: | MJ win/loss vs. team |
| Milwaukee Bucks ’84-85 | 59-23 (.720) | 0-1 |
| Boston Celtics ’85-87 | 126-38 (.768) | 0-2 |
| Detroit Pistons ’88-91 | 232-96 (.707) | 1-3 |
| Los Angeles Lakers ’90-91 | 58-24 (.707) | 1-0 |
| Cleveland Cavaliers ’91-92 | 57-25 (.695) | 1-0 |
| Portland Trailblazers ’91-92 | 57-25 (.695) | 1-0 |
| New York Knicks ’91-93 | 111-53 (.677) | 2-0 |
| Phoenix Suns ’92-93 | 62-20 (.756) | 1-0 |
| Orlando Magic ’94-96 | 117-47 (.713) | 1-1 |
| Seattle Supersonics ’95-96 | 64-18 (.780) | 1-0 |
| Miami Heat ’96-97 | 61-21 (.744) | 1-0 |
Utah Jazz ;96-98 | 126-38 (.768) | 2-0 |
If you add the Reggie Miller Pacers, who I forgot to add, MJ went 13-7 versus this group of teams. He faced eight teams with a 70+ percent winning record.
Let’s destroy some myths.
- No, it is not a forgone conclusion that Jordan would have won eight straight had he not retired after first three-peat. Those Rockets’ teams that went back-to-back were really good. They were similar to the ’11 Mavs. Everything centered around their star with excellent role players. The Dream was averaging 28/11/4 with 1.7 steals and 4 blocks in ’93-94 and 30/10/4 with 2+ blocks the following year. They had Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe. Strong guard play and an African Thanos in the interior who was the only player other than Jordan to win DPOY and MVP in the same season at the time.
- MJ was not always the guy who closed the game with his scoring. In game 6 of the ’97 NBA Finals, Steve Kerr hit the game sealing basket and in game 6 of the ’93 NBA Finals it was John Paxon’s dagger that sealed the deal.
- MJ definitely had a great team around him. The early Bulls’ teams weren’t as saturated with talent, but the later Bulls teams were. The ’95-96 team had Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr and Luc Longley. During that second three-peat, MJ had a 3rd All-Star level player for the first time in his career. The Bulls won 203 of 246 possible games during that three year span (.825).
Points System: Metric for the greatest
At the end of the day you can make a case for either player. In some ways this discussion is extremely subjective. So, I decided to develop the point system.
Points System Rules
Gumbo Method
The primary objective for playing the game is winning championships at the end of the day. So, it will receive three points.
I think one of the dumbest arguments is that making it to the NBA Finals and losing is a negative on your record. Getting there should be rewarded–it’s difficult.
For every All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defense, All-Rookie, MVP, DPOY, Finals MVP, or All-Star MVP, you get a point.
Any positively recorded metric that sets you alone gets you a point. Points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, FGM, minutes, triple doubles, FG%, 3pt %, FTM, or 2pt%. This per game and totals for the regular season and playoffs.
This is an added weighted measure to add for the competition you are playing.
This is specifically for points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, FGM, 2pm, FTM, or 3ptm.
LeBron James
12 title points
LeBron won four championships so 4×3 = 12.
15 NBA Finals trip points
LeBron went to the finals 10 times so 10×1.5 = 15.
55 accolade points for career
16AS+ 16 All-NBA, 4 titles, 4 FMVP, 4MVP, 1 ROY, 1 All-Rookie, 3 AS MVP + 6 All-Defensive = 55.
84 League Leader points in career
These are all of LeBron’s regular and postseason leading marks collected over his career in totals and per game.
4.5 NBA FINALS OPPONENTS POINTS
Here’s LeBron’s weighted mark for facing teams with 2+ HOF players on it in the NBA Finals. Spurs, Warriors, and Thunder fit this category.
Michael Jordan
18 title points
MJ has won 6 titles so he gets 18 points. 6×3 = 18.
9 NBA Finals trip points
MJ went to the NBA Finals 6 times so he gets 9 points. 6×1.5 =9.
57 accolade points for career
14AS+ 11 All-NBA, 6 titles, 6 FMVP, 5MVP, 1 ROY, 1 All-Rookie, 3 AS MVP + 9 All-Defensive, DPOY = 57
98 League Leader points in career
These are all of MJ’s regular and postseason leading marks collected over his career in totals and per game.
1.5 NBA FINALS OPPONENTS POINTS
Here’s Jordan’s weighted mark for facing teams with 2+ HOF players on it in the NBA Finals. Lakers and Jazz fit this category.
MJ vs. LeBron
1
pts
MJ
Michael Jordan graded out to a 12.23 point rating over his 15-year career.
1
pts
LeBron
LeBron James graded out to a 10.02 point rating over his 17-year career.
Based on my points system, LeBron James is 13 points behind Michael Jordan on the all-time ranking with Jordan receiving a higher grade over his career. For the MJ fans, this is an awesome indicator, however James is STILL playing. He’s coming off a season where he averaged 25/8/10 and won his 4th NBA Championship. With the addition of Anthony Davis, he could extend his career 2-3 years for sure and by then, we will be able to fully reassess where LeBron James sits in the pantheon of all-time greatness. So right now, it’s still MJ, but will it be when LeBron is retired? Only time will tell.
These are just my thoughts...
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